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Rotating the Lower Dan Tien


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#1 ricemaster

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 03:38 AM

I'm reading Damo Mitchell's "Daoist Nei Gong". He teaches a practice of rotating the lower Dan Tien, that is using the mind to turn the lower Dan Tien forward (down the front and up the back).

 

I have never come across this practice before. I wonder if you know of any other references to it and the general opinion about such practice.

Thank you!

 


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#2 cheya

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 07:47 AM

Look into Feng Zhiqiang's teachings on Hunyuan: tai chi ruler, bang (stick), and ball are practices that help you train this. Searching "Chen Techniques for rotating the dantian" will get you lots of material!

I've been interested in this for awhile, and below are some links from my files. Can I do it? Not yet, but I think I'm getting there! I found lots more interesting stuff trying to locate the urls for you. Thanks for posting!



http://austinchentai...the-Dantian.pdf

http://tukylam.freeo...om/egroup2.html

http://tukylam.freeo...om/dantian.html

http://tao-meditatio...inner-roll.html
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"The mind follows the body
like the stream clings to the earth."
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#3 dwai

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:06 AM

I'm reading Damo Mitchell's "Daoist Nei Gong". He teaches a practice of rotating the lower Dan Tien, that is using the mind to turn the lower Dan Tien forward (down the front and up the back).
 
I have never come across this practice before. I wonder if you know of any other references to it and the general opinion about such practice.

Thank you!

 


Read master Liao's tai chi classics book - he covers the Dan tian rotation in detail in the book.
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--
A sinking spiral, rising upward, it opens and closes by turns...

#4 Apech

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:27 AM

It happens anyway without any effort.


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"Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign."  J. S. Mill

 

 


#5 mjjbecker

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 02:04 PM

Look into Feng Zhiqiang's teachings on Hunyuan: tai chi ruler, bang (stick), and ball are practices that help you train this. Searching "Chen Techniques for rotating the dantian" will get you lots of material!

I've been interested in this for awhile, and below are some links from my files. Can I do it? Not yet, but I think I'm getting there! I found lots more interesting stuff trying to locate the urls for you. Thanks for posting!



http://austinchentai...the-Dantian.pdf

http://tukylam.freeo...om/egroup2.html

http://tukylam.freeo...om/dantian.html

http://tao-meditatio...inner-roll.html

 

Indeed, as according to Damo Mitchell's website, much of the qigong training in his school comes from the Hunyuan method:

 

http://lotusneigong....ent/?page_id=27

 

 

...he studied the Hunyuan system of grandmaster Feng over a period of several years. He lived and studied with master Ni when in Northern China and also studied the system with other teachers such as Qi Zhaoling and Chen Xiu. The Qi Gong system studied here also formed a large part of Lotus Nei Gong’s syllabus.


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#6 rainbowvein

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 03:43 PM

If one is a beginner, or not energetically "flow"ing throughout the body, what is the point/benefit to rotating the ldt? :huh:
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#7 ChiDragon

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:08 PM

Good question...!!!
Who is going to come up with a good answer for this one.....??? :)


Edited by ChiDragon, 28 September 2013 - 11:50 PM.

靜觀其變 以靜制動
Beware of the unexpected silently
Handle adversity with calmness

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#8 dwai

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 08:46 AM

If one is a beginner, or not energetically "flow"ing throughout the body, what is the point/benefit to rotating the ldt? :huh:

Without flowing energetically, LDT rotation is going to be a purely imaginary exercise initially. But on the other hand, the flow can get initiated by first imagining it (because the Qi follows the Yi).


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A sinking spiral, rising upward, it opens and closes by turns...

#9 dawei

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:16 AM

If one is a beginner, or not energetically "flow"ing throughout the body, what is the point/benefit to rotating the ldt? :huh:

 

It depends on what one's goals or objectives are in regards to internal energy practices and the development of the LDT.

 

If breathing oriented practice is enough for someone, then that is fine and that is where they will remain; with at least a new awareness of energy and the LDT.    Nothing wrong with that as that is the foundation.


Think of it as concentric circles or ripples in a pond.  You start at the smallest circle, where the rock enters the water.  The rock entering the water is akin to learning to drop the breath/Qi all the way down to the LDT.   That generates all the rest of the potential ripples... which ripples outwardly you move to are dependent on the additional internal energy practices pursued.

 

You'll hear some here talk about these higher level practices, develop of energy and experiences, etc...and you can get a idea of what is going on but you'll never really understand it unless you do it, and one really has no ability to speak to such issues until they practice and experience it.

 

So it depends on your goals regarding internal energy work and the LDT... 


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#10 SonOfTheGods

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:01 AM

If one is a beginner, or not energetically "flow"ing throughout the body, what is the point/benefit to rotating the ldt? :huh:

 

In magick, a moving visual is easier to imagine/hold than a steady one.

 

The mind innately yearns to move, so accomodate it.

 

All my Dan Tiens do that flipping and spinning, naturally.

 

Dynamic > Static


Edited by SonOfTheGods, 29 September 2013 - 10:01 AM.

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#11 JohnC

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:04 PM

Indeed, as according to Damo Mitchell's website, much of the qigong training in his school comes from the Hunyuan method:

 

http://lotusneigong....ent/?page_id=27

 

Woa... and Feng's master was Hu Yao Zhen.... small world.



#12 Bearded Dragon

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:10 PM

Have played around with doing this in martial arts. Rotating someone else's ldt. Didn't seem to do anything beneficial in any regard. Move your intent a few inches back to the sacrum and people start moving. Not sure if there is any point other than refining the size of it smaller. As has been said this happens naturally as has been told to me by quite a number of people who are quite experienced.


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#13 dawei

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 08:14 AM

RV:  I'll give an example for its use... and others may have some in regards to the Chen Style Tai Ji which is it well known part of.

 

Let's say one wants to do the MCO... maybe because they want to deal with blockages or reclaim vitality. Whatever.

 

One method to help in the visualization is to use a 'pearl' and orbit the pearl... but how to get a pearl?  

 

As a procurer to the MCO, one wants to gather sufficent Qi as it should never be done in a depleted state; Qi easily scatters, etc.

 

One method is to breath into the LDT, I prefer to bring in through the crown (heavenly Qi) and heels (Earthly Qi), several times and get the stove warmed up... then start to let the heavenly Qi descend to the front of the LDT and the earthly Qi to ascend to the back of the LDT... this will start the rotation and one can use their hands in a circular motion to help encourage their visualization if they want.

 

Let it rotate for a while and continue like this but then start to compress the energy (which starts off the size of a drum) to a smaller and smaller size... eventually refined to a pearl.  Stop the pearl spinning, drop it into the Huiyin and start the MCO. After done, expand the pearl back...

 

There are probably hundreds of different practices one might be involved in where they use such techniques. This is just one.  This comes from Jerry Johnson's Medical Qigong program.


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#14 hydrogen

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:16 AM

It happens anyway without any effort.

 

Is your LDT rotates by itself? How does it feel? Thanks.


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#15 PLB

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 04:26 PM

Is your LDT rotates by itself? How does it feel?

 

I hope Apech answers your question but I would like to say how it feels to me. The dantien is gyroscope that spins all directions. When I "intend" one direction, I am feeling what it is already doing in that direction. I am not setting it into motion but adjusting the mind to the degree necessary to experience it. A bigger mind than mine mind could notice more and so maybe.....


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#16 Apech

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:59 AM

Is your LDT rotates by itself? How does it feel? Thanks.

 

My style of practice is 90% natural and unforced.  At one stage from doing sitting meditation my gaze would focus on the LDT and it would start to churn.  Sometimes it was pleasant and sometimes not - when it was unpleasant it felt like I was being purged of 'bad' energy and sometimes I would feel a bit sick and my body became kind of heavy and unsettled.  Otherwise usually it resulted in a feeling a bit like going up in a lift, floor by floor in fairly quick succession and then a light going on in my head.  This would subside and then the process start again.  This was quite a number of years ago when this happened regularly ... now it does not tend to happen as it was a result of a particular stage to do with the filling of LDT. 


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"Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign."  J. S. Mill

 

 





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