effilang

Taoist Yoga & Daoist Alchemy: Discussion

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Hi Bottoms,

 

I'd like to open a thread to discuss both of these books in depth.

Lets keep it organised by following some simple rules, so that everyone can get the best out of the thread:

 

1. If something you have to express or ask is in relation to a page or chapter in the book, please specify the page/chapter in the top of your post, so that people can reference it in their own copies of the book.

2. If you are replying to someone, please quote them so we can keep track.

3. Do your best to keep it on topic.

 

Thanks : )

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I'd like to start first, by continuing the discussion that we were having yesterday with Drew and Ish and Dorian and the rest of the gang.

 

PAGE: Preface xii

 

Taoist alchemy forsakes the worldly way of life by preventing the generative force which produces the generative fluid from flowing its ordinary course which satisfies sexual desire and procreates offspring.

 

Ok, fair enough. This is clear.

 

By regulated breathing is meant deep breathing that reaches the lower abdomen to arouse the inner fire and then bring pressure on the generative force already held there forcing both fire and generative force to rise in the channel of control in the spine to the head.

 

I am guessing this pressure from the breathing during the closing mechanism means the diagphragm pressing down on the LDT on the in-breath?

 

These continued ascents and descents cleanse and purify the generative force which is then held in the lower tan t'ien under the navel so that it can be transmuted into vitality.

 

SO generative force is JING, which is driven into the orbit and through the cleansing and purification steps at D and J is converted into QI. So basically Its just rotating in this stream and every time it turns into Qi through D and J, it deposits a little newly formed QI into the MDT until the MDT is filled?

 

PAGE: Preface xiii

For Drew:

WHILE putting the generative force into orbit it is of paramount importance to locate the original cavity of spirit in the brain which is precisely where a light manifests in the head when the practicer succeeds in concentrating his seeing effectively on the central spot between and behind the eyes. If this is not done the radiant inner fire rising to the head during the microcosmic orbiting may be mistaken for that light and wrongly driven into a minor psychic center in the head from which it will be very difficult to dislodge it.

 

See this is what Drew meant, that it can be done BOTH ways. It is what I understand as well, that you can either start by developing JING then QI then SHEN or first SHEN then QI then JING.

 

So, WHILE putting the generative force into orbit... This means you've already initiated the MCO, so they are talking about the JING/QI/SHEN transformation route here, and not the SHEN/QI/JING as in in chapter one where you're advised to first Fix Spirit In It's Original Cavity. Please share your opinions.

 

...the purpose of regulated breathing is to draw the force up to the lower tan t'ien cavity under the navel so as to hold it there and transmute it into an alchemical agent which is transformed into vitality in the solar plexus.

 

This one confuses me. Can someone elaborate?

 

It is in the solar plexus that the generative force (now the alchemical agent) is transmuted into vitality which rises to the brain (ni wan) where the vital breath, hithero hidden and dormant, will be stirred by well regulated breathing which will prevent it from dispersing.

 

Oh, I think this just made the last one clear. So Generative Force turns to the Outer Alchemical Agent through emptiness meditation to cook it, then it rises to the MDT to turn to Vitality, or more accurately... IT doesn't RISE, but rather the Cauldron coagulates into existence as the drops of QI condence into the MDT through the MCOs rotations?

Edited by effilang

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PAGE: Preface xiv

 

 

When the generative force is cleansed and purified during the microcosmic orbiting and becomes the alchemical agent, it rises to the solar plexus which then plays the role of the middle cauldron in which the generative force is transmuted into vitality. When vitality is purified it rises to the ni way or brain which then becomes the precious cauldron in which vitality is transmuted into spirit.

 

...the practicer thus lays the foundation by gathering the
microcosmic outer alchemical agent
to restore the generative force that has dispersed and so to invigorate the brain.

 

 

So in TY, laying the foundation is considered manifesting the Cauldron in the ni wan, rather than just opening the MCO as as described in other books?

 

PAGE: Preface xv

 

The microcosmic inner alchemical agent is now gathered by roling the eyes from left to right in conjunction with the microcosmic fire that passes through sublimating phases at the four cardinal points of the microcosmic orbit. This process is called the inner copulation of the positive and negative principles. It means that vitality, driven by ventilation (breathing) and (inner) fire, soars up and down so that the vital breath in the brain units with the nervous system, causing spirit to develop and its bright light to manifest; this is commonly called the preparation of the golden elixir.
This bright light is the mysterious gate
(hsuan kuan) which is indescribable
and from which
spirit emerges
for the breakthrough.

 

This BRIGHT LIGHT is hsuan kuan, FROM which spirit emerges. So the bright light is not spirit?

 

 

The eyes are positive, whereas the rest of the body is negative. Therefore, when the outer alchemical agent has been gathered, it is necessary to roll the eyes to unite the positive with the negative principles in order to develop spirit in the bright light that emerges from the original cavity between and behind the eyes. This bright light shows the exact position of that cavity and should not be confounded with the luminous inner fire that rises to the head during the microcosmic orbiting as we have said earlier.

 

I still have a difficulty understanding EXACTLY what encompasses the successful gathering of the OUTER alchemical agent.

This is important, because one must know when to roll the eyes to copulate the negative vitality of the outer alchemical agent with the positive vitality of the inner alchemical agent to produce spirit, which should be plunged into the LDT to be enveloped my Vitality.

 

 

In Taoist yoga the negative vitality is represented by the dragon and the positive by the tiger, while their copulation brings into manifestation the original spirit in its bright light.

 

Hmm...

 

Edited by effilang

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For Drew:

 

When original or prenatal spirit manifests thus, it should be driven into the lower tan t'ien center under the navel to fix it there

 

 

When the vital breath moving up and down in the thrusting channel does not rise above the heart (the house of fire) and drop below he lower abdomen (the house of water) it will slip into this cavity under the navel, causing the sudden manifestation of true serenity.

 

By not moving above X and below Y, do they mean that it is held there by concentration and when held onto there it will of its own slip into the LDT?

 

PAGE: Preface xvi

 

The practicer should now concentrate on the lower tan t'ien cavity under the navel until vitality vibrates there, then lift it to the heart (the seat of fire) and lower it to the lower abdomen (the seat of water) with continued ascents and descents in the thrusting channel until suddenly it slips into that cavity; this is called re-entry into the foetus for further creativity and is the outcome of linking the heart (fire) with the lower abdomen (Water).
Spirit which has been fixed there will be enveloped by vitality until both unite into a whole
,
called
the
immortal foetus
in the state of complete serenity.

 

So the LDT vibrates more than once? At the initial stages of practice before the MCO and then later again?

 

So the immortal foetus is SPIRIT enveloped by VITALITY in the LDT. Sort of like a human foteus in amniotic fluid?

Edited by effilang

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I understand now through reading what I just posted why rolling the eyes from A to D to G to J is also used to control things like lower sexual emotions of arousal that can cause ejaculation. >> Because that is negative, so by rolling the positive eyes and initiating the MCO u UNITE them and the Negativity is purified in the orbit.

 

I guess this is why Drew says to do reverse breathing when the pervs are on you. I think you should roll your eyes too Drew to unite the two vitalities into one.

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...the purpose of regulated breathing is to draw the force up to the lower tan t'ien cavity under the navel so as to hold it there and transmute it into an
alchemical agent
which is transformed into vitality in the solar plexus.

 

This one confuses me. Can someone elaborate?

The golden stove originally did not exist, but comes into being when the generative force develops and vitality manifests.

p10

 

So if you recall my speaking of efferent nerves...the outer alchemical agent is purified generative force. If the heart is stirred by desires, this sullies the process and prompts the creation of the postnatal generative fluid (p34) The combination of focusing the ni wan onto the lower dantien in the absence of sense data is where the light in the chamber of water (sotgf) manifests, the process continues until the generative force is full and from there, the body no longer needs to "top off the tank" continually and the next stage of the process can happen, gathering the outer agent (chapter 4.) There is no need to do the gathering process before the generative force has been filled.

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Why this tread didnt develop further?Maybe is good idea to compare this book with Wu Zhen Pian of Zhang Boduan?

 

Ormus

Edited by Ormus

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