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[HHC Study] Hua Hu Ching Chapter 12


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#1 Mal

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:10 PM

Do you wish to inhabit sacred space? To have the respect and companionship of the highest spiritual beings? To be protected by the guardians of the eight powerful energy rays? Then cherish the Integral Way: Regard these teachings with reverence, practice their truths, illuminate them to others. You will receive as many blessings from the universe as there are grains of sand in the River of Timelessness.

 

Walker's HHC 12
http://brianbrownewa...m/hua-hu-ching/

 

 

The master continued his instruction. "Kind prince, if there were as
many rivers in the world as there are grains of sand in the River of
Timelessness, and if each river contained as much sand as the River of
Timelessness, do you think that would be a vast amount of sand?"
  "Yes, indeed, Venerable Teacher; it would be very vast."
  "Kind prince, if a person amassed a huge fortune and gave it all
away to as many people as there are grains of sand in the River of
Timelessness, would the blessing that he gained be as great as what he
gave?"
  "It would be very great indeed, Venerable Teacher, because
returning an equivalent response is the nature of a subtle law of the
universe."
  "That is true, kind prince, but if one practiced the truth
contained in these teachings and expounded it to others, the benevolent
grace and blessings he would evoke from the universe would be even
greater. When someone elucidates this sacred scripture to others, the
place in which he does so becomes sacred and is respected by all
spiritual beings, those with form as well as those without. Wherever
these teachings are, the Sacred Alter is. All the virtuous beings of the
universe pay homage to it, and the divine guardians of the eight
powerful energy rays protect it. All people should reverently offer
salutations and incense to it and surround it with fragrant flowers.
  "Furthermore, if someone embraces the integral truth contained in
this scripture, and studies and practices it, then he must attain the
highest blessings of all beings. All of the great masters of the
Universal Way respond to those who cherish it. Is this thinkable? Why
should people live within the smallness of the mind?"

 

Ni's HHC 12
http://www.bookdepos...i/9780937064009

 

(While "The master continued his instruction" Mal is going on holidays tomorow for ~2 weeks :D)


KAP

bye for now
Mal - artmgs@yahoo.com
You are not what you think you are. But what you think... you are.
"Don't think.....feel" Bruce Lee | "Feel.....don't think" Qui-Gon Jinn

#2 Mal

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:17 PM

I find this quantification of blessings somewhat strange. Should not any blessing be a blessing? and does a hierarchy of blessings lead to division rather than oneness?
KAP

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Mal - artmgs@yahoo.com
You are not what you think you are. But what you think... you are.
"Don't think.....feel" Bruce Lee | "Feel.....don't think" Qui-Gon Jinn

#3 manitou

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 04:49 AM

Hi Mal - this does take a bit of breaking down!  Let's you and me try to figure this puppy out.

 

Your first paragraph quote 'Do you wish to inhabit sacred space?....' indicates a plaurality right there, when it goes on to ask if we wish to have the companionship of the higest spiritual beings.  I guess it's anybody's guess as to whether this is metaphoric or whether there are actually beings that we cannot see accompanying us.  But I suppose it must be interpreted that the 'beings' are also part of the One.

 

What's the meaning of the first paragraph about the grains of sand?  Seems like a bit of an unfair question to the student.  The teacher is referring to the grains of sand in the River of Timelessness, then multiplying the sand by referring to many rivers with the same sand.  What kind of a setup is this?

 

But I suppose the master is equating this to accumulated wealth; in that perhaps there is no end of 'blessings' that come our way when the One is respected (the student's response;  "....because returning an equivalent response is the nature of a subtle law of the universe", or the Reversion of the Tao, as I see it.  If one gives it away, etc....

 

But I think what he's really trying to convey to the kind prince is that expounding the truth of this statement to others would be even greater, as it would be magnified by teaching it to others.  Perhaps this is exactly what Jesus meant when he said to have no fear for the morrow, because today has problems sufficient to itself.  In essence, the master may be evoking the principle that we are like the lilies of the field, we need have no concern that we will have enough, that it will always be provided to us if we stay in consciousness of The Way.

 

I think the understanding of this universal supply and demand is imperative to understanding the workings of the Tao, or even of the Nirvana mindset.  We need be anxious about nothing, when we are in Awareness.

 

As to the multiplicity of beings spoken about as being opposed to the One, I think there's a mixture of philosophical Taoism and religious Taoism here that must be sidestepped a bit to get to the goal.


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#4 Mal

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:21 PM

Agree with the "sidestepping" There may be a historical cultural context for quantifying blessings as they were mentioned in lo fan's (sp?) 4 lessons.

IIRC something like "language of the time" was mentioned earlier. While Ni reads more like a transcription of a conversation. To me I feel Walker has made the "goal" more accessible / obvious
KAP

bye for now
Mal - artmgs@yahoo.com
You are not what you think you are. But what you think... you are.
"Don't think.....feel" Bruce Lee | "Feel.....don't think" Qui-Gon Jinn

#5 manitou

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:17 AM

The master seems to be merging the physical with the metaphysical when he refers to the individual grains of sand.  The individual grains could be interpreted as individal humans, and accumulation on the riverbanks the 'beach', or the One.

 

I have come to believe (actually, to gnow) that trying to hang onto physical wealth is merely to accumulate stuck energy.  This passage seems to infer that the constant flow of the energy (money, in this case) is what is needed; not the accumulation that denies someone else their share.  I have put this to practice, and I practice it now.  I just stopped worrying about it, Knowing that there will always be enough.  So far, it's worked in my life - seems like whenever something extra is needed, some little windfall from out in left field will be there to cover it.

 

But the secret to making this function is the Awareness, I do believe.  It's easy to be in Awareness when we're talking to each other on TTB's.  The trick is to expand the Awareness so that we walk around with it always, during the light of day when irritations seem to set in.  This is a daily discipline, one moment to the next.


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Joy is the Dao.

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#6 Mal

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 03:13 AM

I have come to believe (actually, to gnow) that trying to hang onto physical wealth is merely to accumulate stuck energy


I have been contemplating this for a few days and I have found it to be a helpful perspective. Thank you _/\_
KAP

bye for now
Mal - artmgs@yahoo.com
You are not what you think you are. But what you think... you are.
"Don't think.....feel" Bruce Lee | "Feel.....don't think" Qui-Gon Jinn

#7 manitou

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 04:24 AM

Thanks Mal - thinking through the money thing has liberated me considerably in some ways.


Joy is the Dao.

-The mysterious dancer in the black cowboy hat-


#8 LCH

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 01:13 PM

I was reading through the HHC today and noted I would be curious to pose the question to the "Bums" about this....

 

Any thoughts on the "8 energy rays"?  When I read 8 I think the 7 chakras and the first closest to the head.  In a sense, as with the grains of sand observation, this seems to be "fracturing" the "One".

 

Energy work sets to balance energies, but simply in aligning with the feeling of the "Tao" it seems the energies align themselves.

 

Any thoughts/feelings about that part.

 

I did enjoy reading your back and forth on the matter.

 

Thank you.



#9 manitou

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:34 AM

I was reading through the HHC today and noted I would be curious to pose the question to the "Bums" about this....

 

Any thoughts on the "8 energy rays"?  When I read 8 I think the 7 chakras and the first closest to the head.  In a sense, as with the grains of sand observation, this seems to be "fracturing" the "One".

 

Energy work sets to balance energies, but simply in aligning with the feeling of the "Tao" it seems the energies align themselves.

 

Any thoughts/feelings about that part.

 

I did enjoy reading your back and forth on the matter.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Hello my fellow Ohian!  (I'm in East Liverpool, the place of the Point of Beginning for the surveying of the Louisiana Purchase lands, the survey beginning around 1788!)

 

I'm not sure what the 8 energy rays refers to - I'm currently reading Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike (Freemasonry, all 33 degrees) and it's incredibly symbolic and deep about the different numbers and their supernatural character.  Eight was a revered number, as was three, seven, twelve.  I seem to recall that it is tied up with infinity (ergo the infinity symbol), which would coincide with the integral path the master refers to.  Integral not only in the sense of the chakras and the planets aligning in number and in character (and the 'soul' actually going back through the planets at the time of death until its ultimate reunification with the sun); but integral in the sense of the elevation of man through the 32 degrees of attainment (more accurately, elimination of defects!), resulting in the being-ness of the 33rd degree.  Integral in the sense of 'As above, so below' and knowing that if we flow with nature at a very deep level we are in total balance and harmony with What Is.

 

Can we remain in the feeling of the balance of the Tao without purging our innards?  Personally, I don't think so.  I believe this to be a lifelong work, resulting in (as close as we can get to) total alignment with the Tao.  Please clarify what you are referring to when you say energy work?  Are you referring to the inner orbits of meditation and awareness?  To me, energy work is somewhat different, and it results in healing if you can find the reason for the malady.  Although the macro/microcosmic alignment is a wonderful meditation, I think it's temporary if we just go back to being the same maladjusted person we were without removing the selfishness, the prejudice, the hatred, the jealousy, the pride, the separation from the One.  The ultimate energy work IMO is to be consciously aligned At All Times with the I Am consciousness, as the Master above is no doubt referring to.  Easier said than done, :huh:


Edited by manitou, 07 October 2013 - 09:36 AM.

Joy is the Dao.

-The mysterious dancer in the black cowboy hat-


#10 LCH

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:08 PM

Hello my fellow Ohian!  (I'm in East Liverpool, the place of the Point of Beginning for the surveying of the Louisiana Purchase lands, the survey beginning around 1788!)

 

Ahhh yes :-)  I lived north of Pittsburgh my teens.

 

 

I'm not sure what the 8 energy rays refers to - I'm currently reading Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike (Freemasonry, all 33 degrees) and it's incredibly symbolic and deep about the different numbers and their supernatural character.  Eight was a revered number, as was three, seven, twelve.  I seem to recall that it is tied up with infinity (ergo the infinity symbol), which would coincide with the integral path the master refers to.  Integral not only in the sense of the chakras and the planets aligning in number and in character (and the 'soul' actually going back through the planets at the time of death until its ultimate reunification with the sun); but integral in the sense of the elevation of man through the 32 degrees of attainment (more accurately, elimination of defects!), resulting in the being-ness of the 33rd degree.  Integral in the sense of 'As above, so below' and knowing that if we flow with nature at a very deep level we are in total balance and harmony with What Is.

 

Can we remain in the feeling of the balance of the Tao without purging our innards?  Personally, I don't think so.  I believe this to be a lifelong work, resulting in (as close as we can get to) total alignment with the Tao.  Please clarify what you are referring to when you say energy work?  Are you referring to the inner orbits of meditation and awareness?  To me, energy work is somewhat different, and it results in healing if you can find the reason for the malady.  Although the macro/microcosmic alignment is a wonderful meditation, I think it's temporary if we just go back to being the same maladjusted person we were without removing the selfishness, the prejudice, the hatred, the jealousy, the pride, the separation from the One.  The ultimate energy work IMO is to be consciously aligned At All Times with the I Am consciousness, as the Master above is no doubt referring to.  Easier said than done, :huh:

 

 

The easy answer is that every action is some form of "energy work", to me at least.  Every thought and intention being the expressive/manifested aspect of "qi".

 

You are correct in the specific practice of "energy work" in that if the cause of the imbalances are not addressed, the results will be short-lived.  I have had a wonderful opportunity to to qi-gong "healing" on other people.  Call it whatever you want though.  It mostly has consisted of grounding the person, and getting them in touch with their own "spark" of infinity.  Nothing special, as I feel we can all do this, but I will say these experiences have allowed me to connect with people on the closest of levels.  Such an honor to have the opportunity.  This is the energy work with a purpose, since there is a desire to understand the imbalance, instead of just fixing it.

 

I don't perceive attainment of the "Tao" as being some sort of destination, though it can be seen as such in a life based in linear time. It can be a consistent intended goal to align oneself, but it seems to me to be a bit more like remembering what is "primordial" and forgetting what has been learned.  Is it possible to be a functional human in the fast-paced world and still fall into alignment?  I feel it is, but as you said, it is not easy sometimes.  The illusion of separation is very real to me.

 

I am reminded of HHC #80 saying that "enlightenment is not the end, but the means".

 

The question my mind always asks is "how will we know we are ever there?" haha :-)

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and giving me an opportunity to share mine. 



#11 manitou

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:38 PM

Ahhh yes :-)  I lived north of Pittsburgh my teens.

 

 

 

 

The easy answer is that every action is some form of "energy work", to me at least.  Every thought and intention being the expressive/manifested aspect of "qi".

 

I agree, for every action there is an equal and opposing reaction.  And WE are the manifester.  Once this is realized, the manifestations change drastically, people are seen as more beautiful, we stop looking for the bad or ignoble.  We are mirrors of each other, and we see what we 'want' to see, only what we are capable of seeing depending on our own development.

 

 

You are correct in the specific practice of "energy work" in that if the cause of the imbalances are not addressed, the results will be short-lived.  I have had a wonderful opportunity to to qi-gong "healing" on other people.  Call it whatever you want though.  It mostly has consisted of grounding the person, and getting them in touch with their own "spark" of infinity.  Nothing special, as I feel we can all do this, but I will say these experiences have allowed me to connect with people on the closest of levels.  Such an honor to have the opportunity.  This is the energy work with a purpose, since there is a desire to understand the imbalance, instead of just fixing it.

 

You are so right - it is an honor to have the opportunity.  I do my own form of shamanic qigong as well, and mine goes directly to the manifestation of any individual at any point in time.  To have the ability to See what the problem is - so nobly narrated by Mary Baker Eddy, Helena Blavatsky, any Science of Mind literature.  I'm currently working with a patient who is a young boy, about 17 - I don't know him, but he is the nephew of a friend of mine, living in a different state.  He 'manifested' a horrible motocross accident because he was "paralyzed with fear" of his father, who forced him to enter the race to begin with.  I could See that, once I heard a little of the background of the situation.  His paralyzing fear led to physical paralysis in the form of quadriplegia, which he has had for some months.  His friend (my lady friend), myself, and my other half did a shamanic ceremony where we physically brought the ethereal into the physical in the form of an electric lamp, drawing the energy down from the upper globe on the lamp (his mind was still very awake, although unable to move anything else).  We used rice to move the energy down the lamp, as rice has silicon in it and is a conductor of electricity.  At the moment when my friend 'felt' the love in her heart for him, I had her switch the lower globe on.  Sure enough, several days later the young man received electricity into his upper body.  I don't know whether the bottom half has followed suit yet, but I suspect that it has.  When I was recently in California this last week, I performed a little ceremony for him while I was in the hotel room, imagining that he was probably, at that moment, doing pull-ups on a bar above his bed.  I imagined him losing his grip on that bar, landing on the bed rather hard and jarring things loose.  At the moment I did that, I felt kundalini energy in my legs, an unusual phenomenon.  So I'm hoping for the best.

 

I don't perceive attainment of the "Tao" as being some sort of destination, though it can be seen as such in a life based in linear time.

 

 

And we know this is an illusion!  It's all here now, past, present, future.

 

 

It can be a consistent intended goal to align oneself, but it seems to me to be a bit more like remembering what is "primordial" and forgetting what has been learned.  Is it possible to be a functional human in the fast-paced world and still fall into alignment?  I feel it is, but as you said, it is not easy sometimes.  The illusion of separation is very real to me.

 

What works for me is to realize that every human being, every animal all have one very specific in common:  the black spots in our eyes.  Awareness, the web of awareness that keeps all this afloat.  Seeing from person to person, from animal to animal, from person to animal.  So in essence, it's easier to remember that we're ALL 'god', or the supreme principal, or the Tao.  It's much easier to keep hooked into our upper awareness if we can just remember that if it's got black spots in its eye - you're looking at the Manifester.  Works for me, and I can stay in upper awareness almost all of the time now, after practicing this over a lengthy period of time.

 

 

I am reminded of HHC #80 saying that "enlightenment is not the end, but the means".

 

The question my mind always asks is "how will we know we are ever there?" haha :-)

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and giving me an opportunity to share mine. 

 

I believe Enlightenment to be just the beginning.  Once it is attained, it must be walked.  In order for it to be walked, we must not respond out of excess ego in any situation.  We must be Aware that we are all One and act out of love, kindness, and balance.  Riding the ox requires supreme balance, methinks.

 

I believe Enlightenment to be the same as Self-Realization.  Once we realize we are enlightened, we are enlightened.  But the realization is an inner gulp of awareness, not an outer book we read or path we walk.  The inner is the light that lights the path, that joins our experience in a compassionate manner with the experience of others and allows us to feel compassion for anyone or anything, regardless of how wretched.  It also removes fear, as we are in awareness of the Oneness of all and the illusion of separateness.  Once realized, what's to fear?  The illusion is seen for what it is.

 

Please comment!  I love talking to you.


Joy is the Dao.

-The mysterious dancer in the black cowboy hat-


#12 traveler

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:37 AM

Quote LCH: The question my mind always asks is "how will we know we are ever there?"

 

There's no beginning to enlightenment, no middle, and no end. If you still see enlightenment as an experience, it's not enlightenment. ... Enlightenment is a state in which there is such a depth of peace and satisfaction that there is no desire for anything more or different. If we are really present in this moment, this is enough. (Enlightenment is Not an Experience, by Linda Clair)

 

That said, I can't help thinking that life as an experience goes on even after enlightenment.

 

Enlightenment is described by some as a desireless state reached by one who has become a master. A master of what? Of his/her desires. If one masters the art of woodcraft, it does not mean he/she stops working with wood. In the same way, when one becomes a master of his/her life experiences, he/she does not stop living. Or does he/she? Experience comes to an end with the fulfillment of the path into the light, it is said. Is beingness expressionless then? I would rather interpret the statement that experiences end with enlightenment to mean that the lessons have all been gleaned from the experiences, that fear has all been transmuted into love. At this point, life experiences become an expression of love, and life goes on into sensations of fullness beyond our mortal experiences, beyond our perceptions of fear which is all we know and understand.


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#13 manitou

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:42 AM

Beautiful message, Traveler. The difference between my mindset of 5 years ago and my mindset today is that Love your Brother as Yourself is a thought that remains in my mind, like a glowing ember. It embraces all.

I don't know how this categorizes me. It just Is.

Edited by manitou, 08 October 2013 - 11:43 AM.

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#14 traveler

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:09 PM

When you enter into nirvikalpa samadhi, the first thing you feel is that your heart is larger than the universe itself. (http://www.siddhanat...dalinikriyayoga)

 

Truly, love conquers all.



#15 manitou

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:58 PM

Yes, well said.  And it feels as though there is a 'chemicalization' of some sort that has taken place, within my heart and my mind.  It's all so simple now, once it's in place.  So simple and yet so hidden.

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

You are correct in the specific practice of "energy work" in that if the cause of the imbalances are not addressed, the results will be short-lived. 

 

This is where Mary Baker Eddy has become so useful to me, although I do have to sidestep the occasional traditional Christian references - although there aren't really that many.  When we can See the truth of what life dynamic caused the malady or the situation, and the person can be brought to understand it, the malady or situation need not repeat itself.  Once the young boy has regained full use of his body, I will need to talk to him, somehow, to let him know that in the future he needs to deal with his dad from a perspective of love and compassion (there is alcoholism there) and not reacting out of paralyzing fear.  Otherwise he may run the risk of creating or manifesting another 'paralyzing' situation.


Edited by manitou, 08 October 2013 - 05:00 PM.

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#16 traveler

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 05:42 PM

Yes, well said.  And it feels as though there is a 'chemicalization' of some sort that has taken place, within my heart and my mind.  It's all so simple now, once it's in place.  So simple and yet so hidden.

 

I believe the siddha call this the Melting Heart.

 

Maanicka Vaachagar ... has sung that God Shiva ordained for him an ecstasy bubbling body with a melting heart and pumped streams of wonderful and sweet Ambrosia into the minute holes and pores of his bones and even into the hair root of his frame and filled it up, to overflowing which converted his body into a body of Grace. (Babaji and the 18 Siddha Kriya Yoga Tradition, by Marshall Govindan)






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