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[HHC Study] Hua Hu Cing Chapter 3


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#1 Aaron

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:39 AM

[Note- Although posted in the Taoist Discussions section of this forum, this thread is intended to be a chapter study of Chapter three of the Hua Hu Ching. With that in mind please restrict your responses to the chapter at hand. Any discussions regarding the validity, origins, or intent of the Hua Hu Ching should be directed to another thread and not this one. I welcome everyone to participate. Questions are welcome, as well as answers. Please follow the FAQ rules located in the Tao Te Ching subforum (changing Tao Te Ching to Hua Hu Ching where needed).]

Hua Hu Ching
Chapter 3


Those who wish to embody the Tao should embrace all things. To embrace all things means first that one holds no anger or resistance toward any idea or thing, living or dead, formed or formless. Acceptance is the very essence of the Tao. To embrace all things means also that one rids oneself of any concept of separation; male and female, self and other, life and death. Division is contrary to the nature of the Tao. Foregoing antagonism and separation, one enters in the harmonious oneness of all things.

Translated by Brian Browne Walker
http://brianbrownewa...m/hua-hu-ching/
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#2 Marblehead

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:32 AM

I'm not there are likely never will be.

Good advice though and a goal worthy of trying to attain.

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#3 ChiDragon

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:55 AM

I'm not there are likely never will be.

Good advice though and a goal worthy of trying to attain.


Now, do you see why I'd said that you are not a Taoist......??? :D

Edited by ChiDragon, 11 January 2013 - 10:56 AM.

靜觀其變 以靜制動
Beware of the unexpected silently
Handle adversity with calmness

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#4 Marblehead

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:10 PM

Now, do you see why I'd said that you are not a Taoist......??? :D

And do you see why you can never be Mother Teresa? :o
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I reserve the right to be wrong.

YIN-YANG.jpg I reserve the right to change my mind. Anarchy4.jpg



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#5 ChiDragon

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:14 PM

And do you see why you can never be Mother Teresa? :o


Yes...................:)
靜觀其變 以靜制動
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Handle adversity with calmness

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#6 Mal

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:59 AM

It seems chapter 3 is saying we should not antagonize each other, as division is conary to the nature of the Tao...


To embrace all things is extremly dificult, and socity does not teach us this at all. Instead we are rewarded for striving for goals and to take pleasure in our achivement, leading to the "duality" of displeasure when we experience "failure".

There is a friction between the "intergral way" and "socities way" and going with the flow, attaining "harmonious oneness of all things" highlites the "artificial ness" of "socities game"

But I think we need to be able to play that game to the extent required to live "within socity"
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#7 spiraltao

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:32 AM

To embrace all things means also that one rids oneself of any concept of separation; male and female, self and other, life and death


Does this mean we no longer look at things yin/yang? We just look at them as a part of the tao? The examples are of separation of yin and yang, no?

Hopefully this will make sense.
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#8 Marblehead

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:44 AM

Hopefully this will make sense.

Made sense to me. I agree with what you suggest and ask.

Interesting you mentioning male and female. Watched a documentary on Cuba last night and they spent a lot of time with the Cuban Painted Snail. The snail is both male and female. But they need partners in order to mate. When they mate both parties become pregnant.

However, we humans are not built that way. Only the female becomes pregnant. By that alone there must be a defined separation.

But then I agree that the more we are able to view the universe as a oneness the less we will need to separate and the more we will recognize the importance of all the pieces that play a part of creating the oneness. Yes, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

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#9 dawei

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:42 AM

"Acceptance is the very essence of the Tao."

Ni Says: "You should dissolve all discrimination of individuality and absorb all things into a harmonious oneness... virtue is developed by highly evolved people who embrace all people and things and dispel the darkness which isolates them".

"Acceptance" has been a key concept in my way of understanding and living. IT is not just a philosophical concept or 'goal'. There really is no choice on some level as the discrimination is simply our own mental construct which puts the constriction in our understanding and living. To not accept things as they are is the darkness, IMO.

If we stay on the physical level with this, then it is a goal or something to attain or strive for... IMO, there is nothing to strive for; one has to simply let go and let that which hinders dissolve away. A great way to do that is to get beyond the physical to the energetic-spiritual as there is no discrimination at those levels. If one rests in this seat, then they can let go of separation; and yet live among the physical world of separation [concepts].

Another issue which Ni raises to me is that 'virtue' (De) is developed by the dissolving. It naturally comes about, not by effort but by letting go. I have never really embraced the idea that one 'practices virtue' which makes it out like we're going to forcefully achieve it. If one wants to make this an ethical issue, then so be it... but I don't think that is what is intended. I never think about 'virtue', as it is something to attain; by doing so, I am simply calling attention to my separation from it.

Let go. Sit in that place of no discrimination. You'll find everything is one... and it was not by our doing, that's the Way it is. Accept its Way.
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#10 manitou

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:53 AM

I think that the initial manifestation was both male and female, is that called andromorphous?. We have devolved into separation. Our real nature is the One, prior to the divisions of the sexes; prior to the yin and yang of male and female. This is the mindset we can return to if we exert the effort to do this.

Every single day, every single moment, is an opportunity to strive for the awareness of the Oneness of everything. In order to do this, it's best to look at the idea 'behind' or underlying everything, what it represents. Money, for example. What does that represent? It represents stuck energy, that's all. What do we represent? An entity capable of feeling the surrounding area. What's the idea behind this? the Tao coming into its own? Fulfilling its own idea? We seem to be the machine through which it experiences.
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#11 mYTHmAKER

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:28 AM

"Acceptance is the very essence of the Tao."
understanding and living. To not accept things as they are is the darkness, IMO.

Another issue which Ni raises to me is that 'virtue' (De) is developed by the dissolving. It naturally comes about, not by effort but by letting go. I have never really embraced the idea that one 'practices virtue' which makes it out like we're going to forcefully achieve it. If one wants to make this an ethical issue, then so be it... but I don't think that is what is intended. I never think about 'virtue', as it is something to attain; by doing so, I am simply calling attention to my separation from it.

Let go. Sit in that place of no discrimination. You'll find everything is one... and it was not by our doing, that's the Way it is. Accept its Way.


Beautiful.
Nothing good is ever achieved by force.
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Each day
I
maintain
my body,
only to find
the sea once more
at my sand castle.

#12 Marblehead

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:34 PM

Nothing good is ever achieved by force.

I'm not too sure about that. Volcanos are pretty forceful and they allow the Earth to regenerate itself. Water is pretty forceful too in many cases and it brings life to many things.

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#13 dawei

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:18 PM

I'm not too sure about that. Volcanos are pretty forceful and they allow the Earth to regenerate itself. Water is pretty forceful too in many cases and it brings life to many things.

But your examples are NOT 'forcefully trying to achieve' anything; they are naturally forceful... That is the point, IMO.

#14 Marblehead

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:28 PM

But your examples are NOT 'forcefully trying to achieve' anything; they are naturally forceful... That is the point, IMO.

And I could argue that the Earth is trying to achieve balance but I won't because that would be suggesting that there is intent and in those cases there really is no intent. Wu wei.

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#15 mYTHmAKER

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:37 PM

I'm not too sure about that. Volcanos are pretty forceful and they allow the Earth to regenerate itself. Water is pretty forceful too in many cases and it brings life to many things.


I was thinking more in terms work done on ones self and peoples actions in general.
Volcanoes have force but erupt naturally as a consequence of other factors - they take the path of least resistance.
Water has force but will always seek the path of least resistance -

Edited by mYTHmAKER, 15 January 2013 - 04:39 PM.

Each day
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maintain
my body,
only to find
the sea once more
at my sand castle.

#16 dawei

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:56 PM

And I could argue that the Earth is trying to achieve balance but I won't because that would be suggesting that there is intent and in those cases there really is no intent. Wu wei.

That argue is nonsensical... but argue it if the mind wants to. Let's just stick to what your suggesting: A natural way.




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