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#17 Cheshire Cat

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:42 AM

Thank you for the feedback.

 

I'm really skeptic about this practice: it seems just like a prayer to an exotic deity.

It's like changing Jesus for Buddha, one name for another...and the substance is the same.



#18 balance.

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:07 AM

DAO:

 

 

I don't want to tread too deeply into conceptual territory, because in the end, it's practice that matters..

 

*but* ... "Oneness" aside, mantras are all different.  The phonetics/acoustics stimulate different parts of the body and connect you with entities that also have different energetic-qualities.  I believe Bodri said mantras were like having an energetic phone number-- a way to contact a specific entity.  Jenny Lamb says mantras can be used for purification/karma-reduction/healing/self-awakening (the stories about her pursuit of the Amitabha mantra are really illuminating) .  Master Nan said only a high-level Bodhisattva could explain why mantras were so powerful.    

 

...... in my understanding, mantra's are not necessarily just tools of worship, but ways in which we can connect and merge with those beings that attract us, and then enjoy the benefits of that relationship.  Over time, it seems that those qualities that attracted you in the first place come more and more naturally to you--- you become more and more like the entity you're casting your awareness out to.  But IMO, it takes great patience/sincerity/purity in your intent. 

 

 

best.

 

 

 

balance.


Edited by balance., 17 January 2013 - 07:17 AM.

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"Dressed in sky-flower clothes / wearing tortoise-hair shoes / clutching rabbit-horn bows / they hunt the ghosts of delusion."

-- Hanshan / entry 293.

 

 

 

 

 

 

kunlun.

 

 


#19 Cheshire Cat

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:43 AM

I cannot prove to myself that bodhisattvas have some relations with my spiritual path.

As well as I cannot prove to myself that some Jesus Christs may save humanity...

 

Sometimes I pray the Gods that I can understand, but it's not for enlightenment.



#20 Seeker of Wisdom

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:48 AM

As far as I'm concerned, if there is this Zhunti person and I am connecting to her through this mantra, that's great. But so far I have no evidence it's true, so I'm assuming it's not until I do.


HOWEVER, is this mantra practice helping stabilise my mind? Yes. Is focusing on a virtuous aim, along with a name which reminds me of what I wish to be, helping me be more virtuous and determined to progress? Yes. Is it affecting my heart chakra, somehow? Yes.


I agree with the need for scepticism! Blind faith makes no sense to me at all. I believe things on experience and logic.

Edited by Seeker of the Self, 17 January 2013 - 08:50 AM.

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#21 Cheshire Cat

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:57 AM

As far as I'm concerned, if there is this Zhunti person and I am connecting to her through this mantra, that's great. But so far I have no evidence it's true, so I'm assuming it's not until I do.

 

For me, it's not about the existence of a Zhunti Buddha somewhere. I cannot prove that she doesn't exist either.

If she exist and I can make a contact through this mantra, how could I believe that she will bring me to enlightenment?

The whole bodhisattva story, their vows, etc... This makes little sense to me. No, it's totally non-sense to me.

Why don't the bodhisattvas reveal themselves to humanity so that we know the true dharma?

Why doesn't Jesus simply appear in a tangible way to humanity to show us the true religion?

 

Those questions share the same answer, imho.

 

 


HOWEVER, is this mantra practice helping stabilise my mind? Yes. Is focusing on a virtuous aim, along with a name which reminds me of what I wish to be, helping me be more virtuous and determined to progress? Yes. Is it affecting my heart chakra, somehow? Yes.

Also christian mantras can stabilize your mind, cultivate virtue and affect any area which you concentrate upon.

In addition, many christian mystics saw angels, talked with Jesus and performed miracles.

 

But, I cannot accept that Jesus Christ is the only son of an almighty God,etc...


Edited by DAO rain TAO, 17 January 2013 - 10:20 AM.


#22 Friend

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:23 PM

:huh: 


Edited by Friend, 21 January 2013 - 10:29 AM.


#23 balance.

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:53 PM

DAO:

 

 

This is exactly the sort of discussion I'm not interested in having. 

 

The decision to practice (with sincerity/diligence/patience) or not to practice is entirely up to you-- but don't just sit on the fence debating the thing forever. 

 

(but know, that if you take your practices far enough, you'll have the direct-experience you need to answer these questions for yourself.  There is so much we don't see and don't experience because we are closed to them.  Good practices will open you up.)

 

 

best.

 

 

balance.


Edited by balance., 17 January 2013 - 02:55 PM.

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"Dressed in sky-flower clothes / wearing tortoise-hair shoes / clutching rabbit-horn bows / they hunt the ghosts of delusion."

-- Hanshan / entry 293.

 

 

 

 

 

 

kunlun.

 

 


#24 Cheshire Cat

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 05:59 AM

DAO:

 

 

This is exactly the sort of discussion I'm not interested in having. 

 

The decision to practice (with sincerity/diligence/patience) or not to practice is entirely up to you-- but don't just sit on the fence debating the thing forever. 

 

(but know, that if you take your practices far enough, you'll have the direct-experience you need to answer these questions for yourself.  There is so much we don't see and don't experience because we are closed to them.  Good practices will open you up.)

 

 

best.

 

 

balance.

 

 

Although there is some wisdom in your words, your attitude is in the domain of religiosity and not of spirituality.
There are hundreds of relative experiences, they are all true (christians, buddhists..even atheists).
 
But there is just one absolute experience we may have, that it's totally independent from ourselves.


#25 林愛偉

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:51 PM

Mantras are a language of function in the universe. No Buddha would want a cultivator to worship him as many fidn to worship Jesus, God, etc; but if that mannerism makes the individual be a better person, its fine. Its just not the only way.

 

Also, Mantras, when spoken with sincerity (applied concentration and non wavering focus), and with holding to the cnoditions of its function (holding precepts, abiding by the manner inwhich it can function), a response will be met. Sometimes our own past conditions with such Buddhas and Bodhisattvas may be strong enough now that having not taken refuge, or holding precepts, we will still get a clear response. All in all, that doesn't mean going further isn't necessary. :-)

 

Zhunti Mantra:

 

Ji Shou Gui Yi,

Su Xi Di,

Tou Mian Ding Li,

Qi JIu Zhi.

Wo Qing Cheng Zhan Da ZhunTi

Wei yuan ci Bei

Chui jia hu

 

Namo Sa Duo Nan

San Miao San Pu Tuo

Jiu Zhi Nan

Da Zhi Tuo

Nan

Zhe Li  Zhu Li

ZhunTi

SuoPo He


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#26 林愛偉

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:54 PM

--- similar post by accident...computer is a bit slow


Edited by 林愛偉, 18 January 2013 - 07:55 PM.

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#27 forestofemptiness

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:13 PM

Why don't the bodhisattvas reveal themselves to humanity so that we know the true dharma?

Why doesn't Jesus simply appear in a tangible way to humanity to show us the true religion?

 

If one doesn't see the bodhisattvas in the world, it is because one is not looking.  There are bodhisattvas everywhere, revealing themselves constantly. 


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#28 Cheshire Cat

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:48 PM

Also, Mantras, when spoken with sincerity (applied concentration and non wavering focus), and with holding to the cnoditions of its function (holding precepts, abiding by the manner inwhich it can function), a response will be met. Sometimes our own past conditions with such Buddhas and Bodhisattvas may be strong enough now that having not taken refuge, or holding precepts, we will still get a clear response. All in all, that doesn't mean going further isn't necessary. :-)

 

Yes, I agree  :)

Once, I myself tried a mantra of a hindu deity that undoubtedly produced a response in dreams.

My point is just that we don't really know enough of them. Our "business" with them happens in a realm in which we have very little awareness and understanding of what is going on... it's like seeing a snake and thinking that it's a bamboo stick.

 

So we don't know exactly what are the goods shared and the consequences after this lifetime.

Scholars believe that the mahayana bodhisattvas are strictly related to hindu Gods from whom they came.

For example, chinese Zhunti is Cundi in Sanskrit ... from the Goddess Chandi.

 

To avoid any mistakes, I prefer to follow the instruction of the Buddha of the early canons that is "Respect the Deities, but rely on yourself for Nirvana".That is also the view of some daoist schools.


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#29 Cheshire Cat

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:54 PM

If one doesn't see the bodhisattvas in the world, it is because one is not looking.  There are bodhisattvas everywhere, revealing themselves constantly. 

 

I've met very good people. If we call them bodhisattva, I agree.

I've seen groups of people and associations that work hard for the benefits of human beings. If we call them bodhisattva, I agree.

 

But, I've never seen a mighty bodhisattva with the special siddhis and majesty...



#30 Seeker of Wisdom

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:15 AM

 
I prefer to follow the instruction of the Buddha of the early canons that is "Respect the Deities, but rely on yourself for Nirvana".That is also the view of some daoist schools.



I agree with you. I never said I expected Zhunti to somehow make me become enlightened.

I'm using this mantra because, quite simply, I'm getting benefits. And if it does turn out to really get me contact with Zhunti, well, that could hardly hurt.

#31 林愛偉

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:50 AM

 HAHAHA  Oh yes, the Hindu Realms and Buddhist Realms interplay simply because they are of each other in different vibrational levels manifesting for specific functions in different realms.

 

 Different names, different forms, different functions, and definitely transformation bodies of each other. hahahaha  It gets so deep...and then, it is so obvious.

 

 

Yes, I agree  :)

Once, I myself tried a mantra of a hindu deity that undoubtedly produced a response in dreams.

My point is just that we don't really know enough of them. Our "business" with them happens in a realm in which we have very little awareness and understanding of what is going on... it's like seeing a snake and thinking that it's a bamboo stick.

 

So we don't know exactly what are the goods shared and the consequences after this lifetime.

Scholars believe that the mahayana bodhisattvas are strictly related to hindu Gods from whom they came.

For example, chinese Zhunti is Cundi in Sanskrit ... from the Goddess Chandi.

 

To avoid any mistakes, I prefer to follow the instruction of the Buddha of the early canons that is "Respect the Deities, but rely on yourself for Nirvana".That is also the view of some daoist schools.


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#32 Cheshire Cat

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 08:23 AM

I agree with you. I never said I expected Zhunti to somehow make me become enlightened. I'm using this mantra because, quite simply, I'm getting benefits. And if it does turn out to really get me contact with Zhunti, well, that could hardly hurt.

 

For me, the fact that could hardly hurt, it's something that shouldn't be taken for granted.

This is the main reason for which I'm in to this thread: to read of experiences with this practice.

 

But it's difficult because people are usually not aware of the most subtle transformations that happen in their spiritual practice.


Edited by DAO rain TAO, 19 January 2013 - 08:23 AM.





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