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#17 Fu_dog

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 07:41 PM

To the question.... Can the percentage breathing be learned from the video? Most likely yes, you can learn it from Sifu Terry Dunn's video. So, to be clear, there is no need to talk to Sifu Dunn as I did to activate it. I only talked to him to get clarification.

Sounds like some of the posters are already familiar with this style from the original master, Doo Wai. Fortunate to learn from the origin. That said, to learn the system, Terry Dunn's videos are very well done.

The thing I needed to clarify when I spoke with Sifu Dunn is it's the dan tien itself that is the focus on the percentage breathing, and for that matter all breathing that follows.

Also, and this is important, the breath is *not in any way* coordinated with the movements. This is in contrast to tai chi, which does coordinate movement and breath.

Finally, the breathing sequences are to be followed exactly....don't modify them in any way.

Generally, I tend to categorize qigong into primarily a "building qi" or "circulating qi" program. With Flying Phoenix, I can say it does both very powerfully. To be honest, I am not sure why this system works so well...it's an esoteric system. That said, it's a system that I can see myself staying with for the long term.

Edited by Fu_dog, 10 December 2009 - 07:50 PM.

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#18 Spirit Ape

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 12:53 PM

Fu Dog,

Thanks and love the name for many reasons! How does Terry Dunn explain the breath percent and when he breaths in does he mention Dan Tian or whats his percentage based on how and where does he say the percentage goes to?

Just breathe deep or does he mention Dan Tian?

Regards
Ape

#19 Fu_dog

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 03:24 PM

Spirit -

Yes, Terry Dunn discussed the dan tien specifically. However, on the video I watched (his "Six Seated Meditations" DVD) when he begins to talk about percentage breath he simply states something to the effect of "breath in and fill up" to a certain percentage, and mentions the lower abdomen.

The was part about where the percentage goes is what I wanted clarified. So I contacted Sifu Dunn to discuss. It is the dan tien, i.e., that is where the percentage goes.

As far as how he explains the percentage breaths, Sifu Dunn does an excellent job of communicating the percentages and sequences. Each exercise has its own sequence of percentage breaths. For some exercises there is a sequence of three different percentage breaths. Other exercises have a sequence of up to five different percentage breaths. The percentage breaths are used to begin each exercise.

I am not sure how or why the percentage breathing works. Also, I can't explain why so much energy is felt during the slow movements. However, for me personally there is a power in practicing Flying Phoenix that I have not felt in any other system.

There are a number of different exercises in Flying Phoenix qigong, and Terry Dunn has a number of DVD's that explain the system. There are standing meditations, seated meditations, beginner and advanced. I have more to go to learn the system thoroughly, however, for the time being my system is still getting used to the energy generated by the exercises I am currently practicing.

HTH
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#20 zen-bear

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 06:43 PM

Hi Lloyd,
Thanks for bringing me into taobums and encouraging me to contribute to the forum.

I'll be glad to answer anybody's questions about Flying Phoenix Celestial Healing Chi Meditations (Fei Feng San Gong) by Feng Tao Teh, which I learned from Bok Fu Pai grandmaster Doo Wai.

There are other internal systems I learned from Grandmaster Doo Wai, and before I met the grandmaster in 1990, I had been certified in 1983 to teach other kung-fu styles with internal systems (e.g., Tao Tan Pai (Taoist Elixir Method) of Master/Taoist Priest Share K. Lew in San Diego and Ark Yue Wong's Shaolin Five Animal Kung-fu). But I found Flying Phoenix system, out of all the qigong systems I had also practiced and taught, to be the most fast-acting in terms of imparting tangible healing energy that just accumulates and build and builds in your system with regular practice. Because it was also the easiest to teach and easiest for students to retain, and also the safest Qigong to teach, I decided to put on DVD's in 2003.

http://www.taichiman...ng_catalog.html

And although I haven't been in touch with the grandmaster since I ended my training with him around 1996, I was very glad to hear through the martial arts network in 2004 that Grandmaster Doo Wai approved of them and said that they were very good.

I'm glad that the messages I've read in this Forum thus far about Flying Phoenix and other topics are by intelligent and experienced folks who recognize real from unreal--unlike so many of the Youtube postings (around G.M. Doo Wai's clips) that are just totally bizarre and blind, off-hand insults sent in by ignoramus's and people with no level whatsoever. Well, that said, I'm glad to be hear and am eager to contribute and eager to learn from you folks out there.

http://www.taichiman...ingphoenix.html

Edited by zen-bear, 30 September 2010 - 02:30 PM.

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#21 zen-bear

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 08:06 PM

Hi BK,

The name breath percentage was created by Doo Wai that is correct and how to breath in a certain way using the % as a guide to fill the dan Tian/s or body depending on the meditation or Qi Kung you are training. Retention is in some BFP methods but only on certain things which Ill not mention here. There is some meds that use Om and other mantras too!

He learnt the breathing from his father by listening and watching his breath, but found it to difficult for people to learn o understand and added percentage breathing for students to undestand it better.

Hope this helps?

Spirit Ape

P.S G.M Doo Wai been training meditation, qi kung, kung fu from his father since 3 ys old! :)



Hi SApe,

Thanks for explaining the origin of the breath control sequences in the various styles that GM Doo Wai teaches. Yes, that is exactly how GM Doo Wai explained the breath controls: He created the breath control sequences because he found that the subtle breath control methods that he learned from his father were too difficult to teach others. All I can say is that the percentage breathing system that he created works. And the breach controls work for all the systems that I've practiced under GM Doo Wai--4 systems altogether (including the Fei Feng San Gong).

Flying Phoenix is purely a medical qigong system that cultivates a sublime healing energy, that's "lighter" than the energy of his other systems. It will also show up on videotape as a distinctive, visible aura around anyone practices regularly for about a year (sometimes even less). FP is like the foundation or safety net that one needs (or is nice to have) before learning GM Doo Wai's other heavy-duty internal systems. The 3 other systems I learned are what you might call "martial qigong." And the energizing effects are even more profound...such that during our training from 1990 through 1996, the circle of students that created (invited) around GM DooWai would occasionally have "energy accidents" of unbelievable nature.

So if there's any question or doubt anyone has about the authenticity of Doo Wai as the GM of his family system, White Tiger Kung Fu, or the effectiveness of his internal arts, awesome martial art, and healing powers, I can remove all doubt and question with first-hand testimony about or demonstration of their effectiveness. I consider GM DooWai to be one of the few great high-level masters that I have met in this lifetime. --And I've been around the arts for a while. On my website, taichimania.com, in my "favorite links" section, I put GM Doo Wai under "Old School Kung-Fu" alongside only two other grandmasters: Ark Yue Wong of Sil Lum 5 animals, and Huang Hsing Hsien, the great Southern White Crane master who later became Cheng Man-ching's successor in the Yang style of Tai Chi. (Share K. Lew is right up there with them, but there is no video footage of him anywhere because he doesn't allow it, his art being a monastic tradition).

I've been practicing GM Doo Wai's art since 1992, and it has transformed all my other martial arts: My Yang Tai Chi Chuan is more powerful, Six Harmonies & Eight Methods is a different body-dynamic than BFP, but it also has been helped. My Tao Tan Pai (Sifu Share K. Lew's system) was completely transformed and empowered 2x by the BFP, and the first system I learned, Sil Lum 5 Animals was also thoroughly empowered. GM Doo Wai told me that even though his internal arts is very different from Share K. Lew's Tao Tan Pai, I could "mix" the two energies. And he was absolutely right: the two have mixed well and both are stronger for it. GM Doo Wai knows GM Share K. Lew very well for they are peers--fellow grandmasters, so Doo Wai knew the nature of Share Lew's nei-gung and that it could be practiced alongside his own art.

P.S. Yes, GM Doo Wai trained since he was a very young child, and at the age of 17--that's 17!!!!-- he took on the mantle of "Grandmaster" of Bok Fu Pai, his family style. 17!!! If anyone knows what vast amount of knowledge GM Doo Wai has, one CANNOT imagine how much training that is. And for him to be named GM at age 17, you know that in western culture, that would be considered child abuse. (btw, not only is GM Doo Wai the 6th generation GM of BFP, but he is master of (at least) two other complete systems of kung-fu that he also learned after he mastered BFP. I have learned one of these outside systtems and have seen the other one demonstrated by the GM.

This is percentage breathing in Flying Phoenix, right? Didn't he learn this from Master Doo Wei?




Yes, BK,

It's percentage breathing. And I learned the system from GM Doo Wai.

I just joined the site and this Forum tonight to contribute more info about Flying Phoenix and the many other arts under GM Doo Wai's Bok Fu Pai umbrella.

Terry Dunn

I got a tai chi video of his yrs & yrs ago and found it clear, well produced - great for learning tai chi if you're on you're own.




Hi Trunk,

Thank you very much for the nice feedback. I just joined the site and this Forum to contribute info about Tai Chi , Qigong and kung-fu (for health mainly). the Tai Chi for Health videos are still going strong in DVD format, and we put in a powerful feature called "Select Lessons" mode, whereby viewer can use a menu map and go to any part of the form, and then just that movement is played repeatedly in a loop (for hands-free practice) until one presses the "next" button. More info is available at:

http://www.taichiman...hi_catalog.html

I'm also working on an ambitious multi-year series for PBS to be filmed entirely in China exploring all the internal healing and martial arts. About a year after it airs, the DVD versions of the series will be released in a big way.

If you're interested in more artilces on Tai Chi, qigong, etc. I have some posted on my site, taichimania.com, along with a large section called "Favorite Links" where I comment on a large number of video clips that I've found on Youtube and other places that I felt were worth sharing.

Cheers,

Terry Dunn

Edited by zen-bear, 30 September 2010 - 02:34 PM.

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#22 Baguakid

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 08:06 PM

Hi Terry and welcome to the forum. Thank you for adding to this conversation with your experiences.

I have also learned some exercises from Master Share K Lew's system but frankly, I didn't receive much results from them. I did not, however, learn them from Master Lew himself but from someone who learned them from someone.

I learned 5 breaths, Short 31, Shen (6 standing/6 seated), and 5 dragons from Master Lew's system.

It's great you provide a perspective between the two systems.

I used to live for 6 years in Orange County but never had the opportunity to meet Master Share K. Lew or GM Doo Wai. You and Spirit Ape are lucky.

Best Regards,

Bill

#23 zen-bear

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 08:51 PM

Hi Terry and welcome to the forum. Thank you for adding to this conversation with your experiences.

I have also learned some exercises from Master Share K Lew's system but frankly, I didn't receive much results from them. I did not, however, learn them from Master Lew himself but from someone who learned them from someone.

I learned 5 breaths, Short 31, Shen (6 standing/6 seated), and 5 dragons from Master Lew's system.

It's great you provide a perspective between the two systems.

I used to live for 6 years in Orange County but never had the opportunity to meet Master Share K. Lew or GM Doo Wai. You and Spirit Ape are lucky.

Best Regards,

Bill

 


Hi Bill,

GM Share K. Lew's Tao Tan Pai system requires rigorous daily practice for best results. It is an authentic monastic system where the internal has[b] to be practiced with kung-fu. My teachers' experience and my experience is that teaching the TTP internal alone never leads to wholesome and lasting results. Thus I am of firm believe that the TTP system has to be practiced after one acquires a solid kung-fu foundation. Because your plumbing/pipes have to be clear, and body mechanics perfected, before you start running internal energy through them. I was fortunate to have had about 4 yrs of training in Doug Wong's Sil Lum White Lotus kung fu before I started Tao Tan Pai. After learning TTP's basic animal forms--tiger, dragon, snake, crane, and monkey (no leopard)--we started learning the Full 31, then reduced to the Short 31. ARound the same time we practiced the Shen ex.'s. Then with the years came: 9 Flowers, Six Stars, and finally, the last level, Five Dragons, which changed everything. But we practiced Circling Palms every single day for 4 years. 4 years. And that's 4 sets of Circling Palms where each set consists of 8 repetitions of the L-R circling, each sweep of the arm we tried to strech to a 20-second exhale. All in deep horse stance. (NOT standing straight up as some later folks taught!) Sometimes Circling Palms took so long--close to an hour-- that we would skip #2 and #3 and finished the Short 31 with #4 seated (legs extended). And after we completed the 5 Dragons, going back to Circling Palms showed us that it was more powerful and profound than ever. I still practice Short 31 quite a bit.

Yes, I was very lucky to find authentic sources of knowledge starting in the 70's and to learn directly from the m or from their No. 1 senior student. But ultimately it depends on how hard you practice on your own. During my insane 20's right out of grad school, I worked a full-time job and practiced 6 days a week, 6 hours a day after work in my teachers' studios, for about 12 years. On many nights, our fighting class (full contact) would start around 10 or 11 after forms. And before we knew it, it was dawn. That's kung-fu training.

Don't give up on the TTP 31. Get back to it and redouble your efforts!

Best,

Terry Dunn



P.S.  It's never too late to start investing.


Edited by zen-bear, 14 October 2014 - 01:30 AM.

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#24 Spirit Ape

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 10:15 PM

Hi Sifu Terry,

Thankyou for coming here and saying nice things of Master Doo Wai, yes he is by far a master of Chi. Some of the demonstrations ive seen him do are incredible also.

I teach Tradtional Kung Fu also, Yau Kung Mun, Bak Mei, Wan Yuen Yut Hei Jurng and have learnt some of Lui He Ba Fa. I specialize in BFP methods under Sifu Doo Wai, although I have the Fei Fung Sunn Gung I dont do it I hve way to much on my plate.

How many levels did you learn from GMDW?

Many respects
Garry aka Spirit Ape

#25 Baguakid

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 04:28 AM

Hi Terry, Thank you for your reply.

May I ask something else about Master Share K Lew's system. When I was in China studying Bagua I met an American who spent a lot of time with Master Lew's system. He told me there was a Qigong method of practicing and Neigong method of practicing these exercises. Each had to do with breath as to how the exercises were defined. What I mean is, if they were practiced with a natural breath then it was Qigong, if the breath was retained it was Neigong. For example, in circling palms, the natural way would be as you described above, long even natural breaths. But, for the Neigong method the breath would be taken in completely before the palm would circle, hold the breath through the circle, and then release at the normal release portion.

Have you heard of anything like this?

Thank you.

Best regards,

Bill

#26 Spirit Ape

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 01:23 PM

Can you explain how the circling palm is, not breathing?

#27 Dainin

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 05:06 PM

Hello Sifu Dunn,

Thank you for participating here, it's great to have a practitioner and teacher of your experience on board.

I wanted to ask about your tai chi ruler book and dvd. Is it based on the teachings of GM Lew? I've heard that there are a few different versions of this form out there, not sure what the differences are, or if they are important. Also, what do you see as some of the benefits of this set?

Best regards,

Dainin
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#28 taichikk

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 09:11 PM

Hey Bagua Kid,

Do you by any chance have any contact information of the american you mention in your earlier post who practices the Tao Tan Pai 31 system the nei gung way? Thanks. :P

#29 Baguakid

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 02:23 AM

Hey Bagua Kid,

Do you by any chance have any contact information of the american you mention in your earlier post who practices the Tao Tan Pai 31 system the nei gung way? Thanks. :P


Sorry, I don't.. This is just hear-say and not confirmed. In addition I should mention that breath retention (forced) in qigong/neigong is a very advanced method and can be very dangerous without a teacher.

Edited by Baguakid, 13 December 2009 - 02:23 AM.


#30 zen-bear

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 10:27 AM

Hi Sifu Terry,

Thankyou for coming here and saying nice things of Master Doo Wai, yes he is by far a master of Chi. Some of the demonstrations ive seen him do are incredible also.

I teach Tradtional Kung Fu also, Yau Kung Mun, Bak Mei, Wan Yuen Yut Hei Jurng and have learnt some of Lui He Ba Fa. I specialize in BFP methods under Sifu Doo Wai, although I have the Fei Fung Sunn Gung I dont do it I hve way to much on my plate.

How many levels did you learn from GMDW?

Many respects
Garry aka Spirit Ape

 


Hello Sifu Garry,
I sent you a lengthy email message that explains in detail the arts I learned from GM Doo Wai. My "sentbox" confirms that it was sent to you.

For the forum, I will explain that I learned three arts from GM Doo Wai:
1) Flying Phoenix Celestial Healing Chi Meditations (2 levels)

http://www.taichiman...ingphoenix.html

2) Eight Sections of Energy Combined (Bat Deem Gum) - a very rare and esoteric southern Buddhist internal martial system that I describe as a system of martial qigong. This is NOT that "8 Pieces of Brocade" set of calisthenics that's been published a lot in books and videos, but a complete kung-fu system consisting of 8 complex forms, and a large body of "preparatory forms" and internal exercises. BDG is also NOT related Bok Fu Pai. GM Doo Wai emphasized this many times and also explained that that was an art that he "traded" some of his BFP knowledge to learn from a senior Buddhist monk.
3) "10,000 Buddhas Ascend To Heaven" -- An Ehrmei Mountain system of martial/health Qigong exercises (by Feng Tao Teh, same creator of Flying Phoenix) consisting of three sets of 18 internal exercises. When used as martial art, each of the 3 sets produces an energy that "penetrates" or infuses into the target's natural energy system very differently.
4) Bok Fu Pai - GM Doo Wai's BFP forms and expecially the training drills (repetitive line drills) taught me how to punch and kick with the whole body and to issue the geng (jing) in every move. This happened after I had trained 17 years in other systems. (What can I say, I'm a slow learner!) I was pretty close already...but GMDW completed my training and basically made a kung-fu man out of me. One BFP form that I specialize in is the "Ten Hook Eagle Claw" form, which all of GM's students at the time practiced.

I practice all the above arts religiously, but I also practice just as much Tai Chi Chuan and LHBF--if not more and actively teach Yang Tai Chi Chuan.

Many Respects,

Terry, aka zen-bear


Edited by zen-bear, 14 October 2014 - 01:33 AM.

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#31 zen-bear

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 10:54 AM

Hi Terry, Thank you for your reply.

May I ask something else about Master Share K Lew's system. When I was in China studying Bagua I met an American who spent a lot of time with Master Lew's system. He told me there was a Qigong method of practicing and Neigong method of practicing these exercises. Each had to do with breath as to how the exercises were defined. What I mean is, if they were practiced with a natural breath then it was Qigong, if the breath was retained it was Neigong. For example, in circling palms, the natural way would be as you described above, long even natural breaths. But, for the Neigong method the breath would be taken in completely before the palm would circle, hold the breath through the circle, and then release at the normal release portion.

Have you heard of anything like this?

Thank you.

Best regards,

Bill



Hi Bill,

Yes, you can ask and I have tried to answer:

First, do you happen to remember the name of the American you met in China who had studied Master Lew's Tao Tan Pai system? I know pretty much all the old-timers who have been studying with Master Lew since the 70's.

Based on my experience of the TTP internal system, I could not and would not say that there is a qigong method of doing them and then a neigong method of doing them. To me, it's all neigong. Maybe the person you met was trained differently... I don't know.

We were taught just to do the exercises. And the TTP internal exercises are most profound. They date back to the Tang Dynasty and are attributed to the patron saint of the system, Lu Tung Pin. [I just got back from two trips to San Francisco in October and November and i visited the Taoist temple in Chinatown that is dedicated to Lu Tung Pin. (Jeng Sen Buddhism and Taoism Association). It is a private church, membership only, and I had not been there in 15+ years; but the spirits felt that i was a proper initiate and so I was invited in.]

My answer again: The TTP exercises themselves dictate whether there is retention or natural breathing.

I learned to practice circling palms only one way: deep inhalation as the hips square to the front and one arm extends to the side; then slow exhalation--as slow as possible--as the arm sweeps 180 degrees to the other side. The fourth exercise of the Short 31 (the seated one) has breath retention, of course.

I hope that this answers our question.

Regards,

Terry <_<
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#32 Spirit Ape

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 11:57 AM

Sifu Terry,

Yes, got you PM did you get my return PM?

The Ying Jow Sup Jee Kol Da Kuen is awesome, it has a 2 man set there is another Eagle claw Sup jee Lo Waan Kuen that is fantastic also. Its great you have come out and giving GMDW respect he has been coping a beating on the forums the last few years I have been in many discussions regarding GMDW. He is a man of great knowledge and internal power, many say he is faked his demo's of chi projection, materializing it, healing, striking and breaking coconuts like butter.

Does the Bot Deem Gum has any tension sets?

I specialize in Burning Palm, Iron Body, Omie Bak Mei (of Bak Fu Pai) very rare, and some othere work that GMDW has asked me to master and teach out under the BFP. His system is very large as you said he collected and swapped for other arts using his system.

kind regards
Garry




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